Legislature(1997 - 1998)
05/01/1998 09:06 AM Senate HES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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SENATE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES COMMITTEE
May 1, 1998
9:06 a.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Gary Wilken, Chairman
Senator Loren Leman, Vice-Chairman
Senator Lyda Green
Senator Jerry Ward
Senator Johnny Ellis
MEMBERS ABSENT
None
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 366(title am)
"An Act prohibiting a court from finding that a minor is a child in
need of aid solely on the basis that the child's family is poor,
lacks adequate housing, or lives a lifestyle that is different from
the generally accepted lifestyle standard of the community where
the family lives."
PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION
HB 366 - No previous Senate committee action.
WITNESS REGISTER
Lisa Torkelson
Aide to Representative Fred Dyson
Alaska State Capitol
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions regarding HB 366
Susan Wibker
Assistant Attorney General
Department of Law
1031 West 4th Ave., Suite 200
Anchorage, Alaska 99501-1994
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions regarding HB 366
Representative Fred Dyson
Alaska State Capitol
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of HB 366
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 98-41, SIDE A
Number 001
CHAIRMAN WILKEN called the Senate Health, Education and Social
Services (HESS) Committee into a work session at 9:06 a.m. while he
awaited a quorum. Senators Leman and Green arrived at 9:08 a.m.
The order of business before the committee was HB 366.
HB 366 - NO CINA BASED SOLELY ON POVERTY
LISA TORKELSON, legislative aide to Representative Fred Dyson,
sponsor of HB 366, stated the bill will prevent DFYS from declaring
a child as a Child in Need of Aid (CINA) on the basis that the
child is poor, homeless, or lives a lifestyle that is not
considered quite normal. She recounted a case in which a mother
was reported to DFYS as being neglectful because her children ate
a vegetarian diet, and it took the woman quite some time to clear
the matter with DFYS. Also, many families live on boats for long
periods of time. Representative Dyson is concerned that a DFYS
worker, new to Alaska, might find such an alternative lifestyle
unacceptable. HB 366 will preclude DFYS's involvement in such
situations, unless other conditions exist, such as sexual abuse.
Number 059
CHAIRMAN WILKEN asked Ms. Torkelson if SB 272, considered by the
committee on the previous Wednesday, contained the provisions of HB
366.
MS. TORKELSON said that was correct.
CHAIRMAN WILKEN asked if the two bills contain any differences.
MS. TORKELSON believed they were the same.
CHAIRMAN WILKEN asked if HB 366 will act as an insurance policy.
SENATOR LEMAN asked what the phrase "adequate housing" means.
MS. TORKELSON answered it means living in a shelter. If a person
has no housing and is living in another's shelter, that person
could be considered to lack adequate housing. She noted a tent may
not be considered adequate.
SENATOR LEMAN asked if the bill contains a definition of adequate
housing.
SUSAN WIBKER, Assistant Attorney General, stated the Department of
Law supports HB 366. She explained there is no specific statutory
definition of the phrase "adequate housing."
SENATOR LEMAN asked Ms. Wibker what adequate housing meant to her.
MS. WIBKER stated if a family is not living in a structure, and
instead lives in a car, DFYS could not take legal custody of the
children based on where the children live.
Number 119
SENATOR GREEN asked what would happen if the temperature was 20
below zero, or 102 degrees.
MS. WIBKER answered the social worker would try to help the family
get into adequate housing but DFYS would not have grounds to take
legal custody of the children. If the children's health and safety
were at risk, and the family did nothing about it, even when
offered assistance, DFYS might then be able to take custody.
SENATOR GREEN stated DFYS and various assistance groups train
people in living skills to enable them to live a normal life. She
asked if those services would cease from being offered if HB 366
is enacted.
Number 143
MS. WIBKER said nothing would preclude DFYS from offering
assistance. Many times when a DFYS worker goes to a home, the
worker provides information about available services and offers
assistance with application forms.
SENATOR GREEN asked if a child found to be in need of aid is
removed from the home.
MS. WIBKER said not automatically. Most of the children in legal
custody of the state live at home since removal is a separate
question and legal burden.
SENATOR GREEN asked if DFYS has oversight of a child in need of
aid.
MS. WIBKER said that is correct, and that the child would be living
with his/her parents.
Number 156
SENATOR GREEN asked what the difference would be in the level of
service provided by DFYS in the absence of the CINA determination.
MS. WIBKER said if the child is not in the legal custody of the
state, a DFYS worker could offer to provide assistance, which the
family could accept on a voluntary basis. If the family was not
interested, the worker would have no grounds to do anything.
SENATOR GREEN commented she had a similar conversation with a DFYS
worker in the recent past, who pointed out that DFYS's ability to
strongly encourage families to change their lifestyles regarding
things like sanitation, food preparation, and general slovenly
circumstances is much greater because of the hammer DFYS has. She
questioned whether HB 366 will remove that hammer.
MS. WIBKER said she does not believe so, if the worker was
referring to situations in which DFYS has no legal grounds to do
anything, but wants to make suggestions to a family. If the family
refuses to make any changes, the question then becomes whether the
situation will later give rise to the state taking legal custody if
no changes are made. For example, DFYS could not take legal
custody on the basis that the family lives in a filthy house.
However, if the condition of the house presents the risk of
hepatitis to a child because feces is all around, a health hazard
exists. The DFYS worker would make efforts to assist the family to
correct the problem but if the family refuses, DFYS would have to
determine whether the health risk is great enough to warrant taking
custody of the child. In those cases a doctor might be consulted
regarding the health risk.
SENATOR GREEN asked if the Department of Law supports HB 366.
MS. WIBKER said it does.
SENATOR GREEN asked if DFYS field workers support this legislation.
MS. WIBKER said she has not talked to all of the field workers.
She stated the department circulates proposed legislation to
employees at all levels, and invites comments.
Number 220
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON informed committee members he sponsored this
legislation because he and his wife got involved in a case in which
a woman reported her sister to DFYS because the sister's children
were malnourished. The children were vegetarians and were not in
jeopardy of malnourishment. Second, many families, including his
own at one time, live on boats. His concern is that the status of
a family should not be considered grounds for DFYS interference
with custody; the child would have to be in danger before DFYS
could intervene. HB 366 is meant to act as a preventative measure
just in case DFYS has a less enlightened professional group at
sometime in the future. Alaskans appreciate diverse lifestyles,
and he wants to prevent DFYS from taking away someone's children
only because a home does not have indoor plumbing or a similar
condition exists.
Number 244
SENATOR LEMAN questioned whether a standard definition of the term
"lifestyle different from generally accepted lifestyle" exists. He
noted some behaviors cross the line and are generally unaccepted,
and he would not want those lifestyles to be protected by this law.
MS. WIBKER replied that phrase would mean, to an attorney for the
Department of Law that has to intervene on behalf of the child,
that in order for DFYS to have legal custody, DFYS should have to
prove abuse or neglect. If the only evidence DFYS has is that the
family lives in a cabin with no running water, DFYS should not be
involved in the case. The bill may protect lifestyles that some
may not approve of, but it says if a lifestyle does not involve
abuse or neglect, DFYS should not be involved. HB 366 is designed
to be a limitation on the state's ability to interfere with
families.
REPRESENTATIVE DYSON added this issue gets down to the fact that
the Legislature has not empowered DFYS to take custody of a child
because the parents are doing things that others might consider
morally incorrect, such as engaging in permiscuous behavior or
believing in a natural law philosophy. In his view, this bill will
create a balancing act; some of the cases will require judgment
calls but overall, HB 366 strengthens family rights short of
neglect and abuse.
SENATOR LEMAN moved HB 366 out of committee with individual
recommendations. There being no objection, the motion carried.
There being no further business before the committee, CHAIRMAN
WILKEN adjourned the meeting at 9:30 a.m.
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